Blood tests while on Alternatives

[vicki smith]

Helen,

I take

3 240 mg Maximum milk thistle w/siliphos
4 Eurocel(livercel)
1 multivitamin w/out iron
4 liv. 52
2 200 mg alpha lipoic acid
2 500  mg N-acteyl-cysteine
1 selenium
1 vitamin c 100mg

daily. All enzymes normal(started at  ast-114, alt-331)last summer. Viral load also going down. I'm genotyoe 1a. When you get a and b vaccines can spike viral load for up to a year. Don't panic it will adjust itself. Take a look at www.liversupport.com for liv.52 and max. milk thistle, read Ralph's story, I think he also sells livercel which will lower your viral load big time. I test about every 6 months- am going this week for enzyme testing. Next few months for viral( about every 6-12 months) Good luck. I know you will do great on alternatives. Don't worry too much. Vicki

[willy]

Todd;  I don't know about the viral load.  I do know that I have read that from Lloyd.  I'll see if I can double check it.  I have read here and other places that if the AST and ALT scores drop that's the important thing, and so it may not matter if the loads fluctuate anyway.  From my recollection LLoyd said to expect that it could affect your PCR's for 6-9 months.  I would imagine that results will vary from person to person.  

Robin:  Well dear, I'll be thinking of you while I'm getting my needle today.  I hope you have a easy time of it and are looking forward to hearing about your results.  You can coach me on my biopsy soon.  Best wishes today.

Helen and all:  When I get my results I'll post them here and detail all that I do with my vitamins, supplements, complemental therapies.

Best,
Willy

[willy]

Good Morning and thank you too Vic!

Willy

[vicki smith]

Willy


 Good luck. Vic

[countrygirl]

Good luck, Willy and Robin, with your tests today. Sending lots of prayers your way! I'm a 1a, VL of 1,012,540, AST-65, ALT-58 (most recent panel anyway). Recently had to have a triphasic CT scan because of an elevated AFP (tumor marker) which thankfully showed no signs of tumors or cirrhosis. Have no insurance so have put off bx for right now and sticking with alternatives and healthy lifestyle. Dr. still wants to monitor every 6 months so will go back in Sept. The one question I have is... how valid are liver enzyme tests?Aren't they like viral loads and fluctuate from time to time? Can I gauge how effective my supplements are by these alone? I'm taking a MV w/o iron, milk thistle, alpha lipoic acid, selenium, Vits C and E and garlic. Drinking green tea and lots of water, yoga, massage and meditation. Initially started Berkson's three (MT, ALA, SEL) at suggested dosages, but (and I REALLY, REALLY hate to go here...BUTT) my stools turned yellow-ish and I just didn't feel "right". Don't know if this was a good or bad thing, (like maybe it was helping my body get rid of things that shouldn't be there) but stopped the 3 supps and things went back to normal. Went back on lower dosages, MT (350mg/dy, ALA 100 mg/dy and Sel (100mcg/dy) and feel good about where I'm at now.  Anyone else have this reaction? The other thing that I've been contemplating is taking a break from all supps maybe once a month or so. Maybe a 36 hour juice fast to really flush out the system. Seems like someone here once mentioned a lemon cleanse or something like that but couldn't find the thread. Anyone have any info and personal experience with cleansing? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Pam (Poopsy)

[OZ]

Liver function tests fluctuate over time.  I have had either elevated or normal liver function tests for the past 25 years.  Another important test is albumin.  I went to a lecture last year on lab results in hep c and learned a couple of interesting things.  "Albumin is the single most indication of liver funtion"  Less than 3 is cause for concern.  "Elevated bilirubin with elevated liver enzymes are of warning sign of progression of liver disease".  One thing you do know as a result of your CAT scan is you DON'T have cirrhosis.  It is unfortunate that you don't have health insurance right now.  I believe that everyone in this country is entitled to health care.  The government spends money to help people all over the world and turns its back on its own people.  Somehow that doesn't seem right.  

[Helen]

Thank you Vicki,
I do go to liver support for my maximum milk thistle, but right now its the only thing Im on, Im new to this and still trying to figure out what I should be doing, and just trying to learn as much as I can.
And Im glad you brought up about the albumin test Oz
didnt know anything about this.
You have all been very helpful.
Thank you and God Bless, Helen

[Rob]

Hi everyone,
Lot's of good information here.  If there is no liver damage and I can afford to wait for tx, I may go the alternate route for awhile in order to try to build my platelets up first, at least.  
Now, I'll know for sure what I have to deal with when I get the biopsy results back, which won't be until May 21 because my dr is going away.  The anticipation is going to be hard.
Willie, it wasn't so bad.  They took the time to explain, in detail, what I was going to experience and were very helpful and kind. One of the nurses even held my hand while they did the biospy procedure and was a mother hen before, during and after. I was lucky to have her there.
I did ask how often emergencies occur and was told that for the two years the doctor was there he had no emergencies.  I felt better with that good news! I am doing fine.  I did ask them to give me something to keep me calm because I was very nervous about it. They gave me valium.  It helped and it was over before I knew it.  I kept my eyes squeezed tightly shut and while I thought they were still numbing the area I heard the gun staple sound and it was all over.  They had done it. It is very quick.  I did feel a little sore afterward and did take two tylenol when I got home. I slept on and off since I got home --must have been the valium. I feel almost good as new now.
I'm a little tender but I'm okay and just glad that hurdle is over with.  I really shouldn't have worried so much but I have a needle phobia, I think.
What was interesting is they do a few hundred biospsies a year for HepC and that is just at one of the few local hospitals in my small area.  But, those statistics are staggering.
I'll be dancing tomorrow.  
Hope every one had a good day.
Willie, it'll be good to know where I'm at with this and in that sense I feel better.
Or, in the words of the infamous Bill Cosby, it I don't go to the doctor, I don't have it.  Just kidding!  I brought his new book with me to the hospital today.
Goodnight, everyone,
Robin

[Rob]

Oh, and thank you for your thoughts and well wishes, everyone. They worked like a charm.

[willy]

I'm so happy to hear it went well Robin.  Believe me; I'll be closing my eyes too!  I DID get a sucker today for not crying when they took my blood and gave me my hep A and B vacinations.
         I only wish that I had thought to ask for some valium too.  

Willy

[Rob]

Willie,
You are funny!
They didn't give me a sucker and I was a good girl and I didn't even cry. But, I'm glad you got one. You deserve it.
Robin

[willy]

Well, I got my test results back:

I think that overall I'm a tad better, but not as much an improvement as I would want to have seen.  Here they are:

                    Aug 2003              May 2004              Range

total protein          8.                      7.5                   6.0-8.3

Albumin                 4.5                     4.3                  3.2-4.8

T-Bilirubin             .5                     .61                  0.0- 1.00

ALKP                       75                      76                 30-115

ALT                         147                     110                  0-45

AST                         82                     62                  0-41

Direct Bilirubin         0.1                      0.2               0.1- 0.5

I highlighted the one score that clearly wasn't an improvement.  The drop from 147 to 110 looks good.  I will note that I don't get near enough rest, and do rather physical construction work.  It's not real physical, but have worked  about 60-70 hours per week for the past year.  In a month or two I will be able to kick back  bit more.  Although I have been taking Transfer factor  (a month now), I had only taken it a week or two before my test and so would not expect a change from that in that time period.
         Overall, I'm OK with the results, I'm still scratching my head about the AST raise in scores but think that I will simply continue to stay the course.  I didn't think that I could attempt to rebuild the house while on TX, so this seemed a reasonable thing to try.  And now I'm going to try even harder. My expectations are that I will get my scores even better with time, better diet, and more rest.

Take care all,
Willy
   

[sands3]

Having the ALT drop is a good sign willy. Your diet sounds like alley's recipe's.
There was an interesting article about vitamin c saying to wait at least two hours after eating before taking any or it causes an increase in iron.
Best to you all with testing.

[willy]

Thanks Shawn:  I am also learning to stay away from packaged cereal.  Most of this in enriched with IRON; a big NO NO for all of us particularly men, since we tend to have higher iron levels).  
         I have read Lloyd write that high iron levels can cause some of our supplements to not work as well.  So to get the most out of our bloodwork tests it might be a good thing to get that iron test that IFTOC suggested, that is not part of a regular liver panel.

Best,
Willy

[alley-oops]

Willy did you post the Ast #'s correctly? I see you have gone down a titch from 82 to 62.  That's a good thing,isn't it? You want to get it down below 41.

I know you are doing so many right things and you do tend to do alot everyday!!!!
Also it's taken you a long time to get the #'s up to where they were, (many years of silent dis-ease) so please don't be disenchanted with your program Willy.
alley