alpha lipoic

[Helen]

Im sure there are a few of you taking this and as I have been considering it I wanted to ask if you felt it helped with any of your joint pain, so far it seems to be my main symptom and even though most days it really isnt that bad there are days when I really feel like I need to take something but will not touch a tylenol or any kind of med. unless Im running a high fever.   Id appreciate any input.
 Helen

[Dude]

I'm not familiar with it, but wanted to mention (as I've posted in the past) about Tylenol and the liver. I was told by two gastroenterologists that Tylenol metabolizes in the liver, and is very hard on the liver. Advil or Motrin, on the other hand metabolize in the kidneys, and are more liver-friendly. One is an acetaminophen and the other an ibuprofen, I can't recall which right at the moment, but suffice it to say that the type that Advil is, is the safer to take.

I also heard that the kidneys are under a tremendous strain because of all the Rebavirin (Rebetol or Copeg) so that's why we have to drink so much water. So if you take Advil or Motrin, I assume you need to continue drrinking a lot of good, clean water to flush the kidneys a little better than normal. Some of the med's we take are processed into our blood, while others are peed out, but a lot of the residual chemistry collects in the liver and kidneys, and possibly other areas of the digestive tract, so water is critical for our organs to function at their prime, and not get over-burdened or blocked by too much of the residual (leftover) chemistry.

Renal (kidney) failure is not uncommon with those who undergo treatments because of the above, and because the patient wasn't drinking enough water. This underlines the importance of water intake for us, so don't take it lightly.

Hope that makes sense.

[Helen]

He Caddude,
I know what your saying about the tylenol but check this out.

NeighborhoodNurse


Total Posts
From User: 2084
 
Re: Tylenol?
Posted: 3/31/2004 (12:55:28 PM)

Based on the review of literature I have conducted, I have come to the conclusion that acetaminophen is preferable to ibuprofen for people infected with HCV.

Although both drugs are potentially hepatotoxic, the effect of acetaminphen on the liver is predictable and dose dependent, whereas the hepatotoxicity of ibuprofen cannot be predicted and has resulted in cases of fulminant hepatic failure.

I offer the following references (below). I hope this helps.

****
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieveanddb=PubMedandlist_uids=9732947anddopt=Abstract

Am J Gastroenterol. 1998 Sep;93(9):1563-5.

"Ibuprofen-induced hepatotoxicity in patients with chronic hepatitis C: a case series."

Riley TR 3rd, Smith JP.

Penn State Geisinger Health System, The Milton S. Hershey Medical Center, The Pennsylvania State University, Department of Medicine, Hershey 17033-0850, USA.

Hepatitis C is a common chronic infection. Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs are commonly ingested both over-the-counter and by prescription. This case report describes three cases where ibuprofen use leads to a marked rise in hepatic transaminases with one case repeating on echallenge. These cases support the recommendation of acetaminophen overnonsteroidal antiinflammatory drug use in patients with chronic hepatitis C.


****
http://hepatitis-central.com/hcv/hepatitis/ibuprophen.html

"Ibuprofen Speeds Hepatitis C Into Cirrhosis Of The Liver"

Patients with chronic hepatitis C often take the over-the-counter non-steroidal drug Ibuprofen (otherwise known as Motrin or Advil) to combat the joint pain that often accompanies the disease. But even a low dose could lead to unsuspected liver damage. "Patients frequently suffer from joint pain. Often, even physicians will prescribe ibuprofen when they should prescribe Tylenol," explains Thomas Riley, III, M.D., assistant professor of medicine at Penn State’s College dicine. "The correct recommendation to help the patient is a low dose of Tylenol, about 2 grams per day. That means the patient can take one ngth Tylenol -- 500 mg -- every six hours or take two every 12 hours."

Riley and his colleagues describe three cases in an article, "Ibuprofen Induced Hepatoxicity in Those With Chronic Hepatitis C: A Case Series," in the September issue of the American Journal of Gastroenterology.

In each of these three cases, the patients have hepatitis C and took over-the-counter ibuprofen. After doing so they all had a flare-up of their hepatitis.

"Many physicians don’t want to prescribe Tylenol because it has a reputation of causing liver damage. As long as it is prescribed in the low doses we have discussed it is definitely the best treatment," explains Riley, who is also the medical director for the liver transplant program at The Milton S. Hershey Medical Center of the Penn State Geisinger Health System.

Riley also says that while patients with chronic hepatitis C usually have mild elevations in liver enzymes in their blood, after taking the over-the-counter Ibuprofen they experience a ten-fold rise in their enzymes, suggesting significant liver injury.

*****

http://www.hon.ch/Library/Theme/HepB/drugsotc.html

"Ibuprofen (Neurophen, Advil)"

This is one of the newer OTC pain killers for mild to moderate pain, is also effective in reducing high body temperature, is anti-inflammatory and inhibits blood coagulation.

Ibuprofen is reported to be better for joint and muscle pain than other OTC pain killers. Ibuprofen can cause a transitory rise in ALT and cases of toxic hepatitis have been reported from it’s use. Of all the OTC pain medications this is probably has the highest risk of causing problems. If suffering from hepatitis it is best to discuss use of ibuprofen with your doctor.

****
I havent had any type of medication since I was diagnosed, but if I have to take something after reading this I will probably stick with a low dosage of Tylenol.

 Helen

 





















 

[retired]

Helen:                                                                                                                                                                          Alpha lipoic acid is a very good antioxidant.  It will help your immune system.  It is not a pain killer.  If you are considering a supplement program this is one thing you should take.  There are many good books on nutrition.  You should learn as much as you can so you can so that you can set up a program that will help you fight this disease.  There are many vitamins and minerals that you should be taking.  Be careful of herbs.  Some may help you and others can hurt you.  Good luck.

[Helen]

Thank you Retired and welcome.  
Yes I heard it was a great antioxidant, but I could swear a couple different people also told me it helped with joint pain, guess I could be thinking of something else, Can I ask where do you get yours? Do you order online? I get Max. milk thistle online, but was considering looking around at the vitamin suppliment stores.
 Take care, Helen

[retired]

Helen:       I have been ordering my supplements from www.iherb.com.  Their service is good and I save a lot of money compared with shopping at the health food stores.  They have a large selection.  You should be knowledgable about supplements as their large selection can be confusing.  Avoid advice at health food stores as most sales people have a very limited knowlege of their products.

[Helen]

Thank you Retired, I will check out the link you gave me,
I appreciate it.  

[Helen]

Hey Retired,
Thats a great link, but Im confused on which one to buy ,
Since there are about 6 different ones, any suggestions?

[alley-oops]

May I please caution you to take vitamin B complex when taking ALA.  I found out the hard way that although it is wonderful for the liver/immune it does deplete your B's.  Sorry I can't help with the type or the where's of this product.
alley

[todd]

I've read several articles recently that tylenol isn't as bad as once feared for us, AS LONG AS YOU DON'T TAKE MORE THAN 650mg, UP TO 4 TIMES DAILY.

My doc precscribes me vicodin for pain. It's 650mg of acetaminophen, with codeine, I think.

Works great, but like Helen, I only take them when I have a fever. Which is about 3 days per week since increasing peg dosage. I guess I take maybe 5 or 6 vicodin per week.

[retired]

Helen:         I take Jorrow Formulas Alpha Lipoic Sustain 300.  This is a 300 mg tablet.  I take two a day.  One in the morning and one with dinner.  Many supplements go through your system in a short time so you have to take them more than once a day.  I recently started taking a B-complex supplement.  I also take an iron free multiple vitamine, 400 mg vitamin E, 200 mcg selenium, 100 mg coenzyme Q10, 2 500mg NAC capsules, 500 mg vitamin c, 250 mg magnesium, 600 mg silymarin (milk thistle), 2 376 mg reishi mushroom extract, 2 500 mg green tea capsule, 2 500 mg glandular thymus extract capsules, and 1 540 mg dandelion root capsule.  I frequently add or stop taking certain items.  Dosage is important so I read as much as I can on each supplement I take.

[Helen]

Wow Retired,
Thats alot! I thank you for letting me know what exactly your doing, I copied and pasted for future reference, Its hard trying to figure out what exactly to do, thats why Im trying to get other opinions and do more research before I jump into anything. Thanks again
I appreciate all the help.
Take care & God Bless, Helen

[Shawn]

Hi Helen,

I took it during my 48 weeks of treatment last year- it supposedly boosts your immune system, but I also found that it speeds your metabolism about 10 fold - While taking it I noticed it's great for losing weight, and it will keep you very regular (if you know what I mean) I took 200mgs in the morning and 200mgs before bed.

Not really sure it helped with the joint pain - I think that's just something that the Interferon does - it's gone now that I have finished treatment.

So far so good on the treatment's success!

Good luck, love and peace.
Shawn

[Helen]

Thats wonderful Shawn, Im so happy for you, and thanks for the info, Im definately going to get on this.
Take care and God Bless, Helen

[willy]

Shawn!  How goes it?  How soon do you get tested again?  How long did it take for the sides to subside?  I hope you are doing well and I'm sure that others here are interested in an update when you get your results.

Thanks for starting this thread Helen.  I'm very interested in ALA.  I'll have to start shopping.

Thanks also Retired for posting your supplements.  It's encouraging to see other people that are doing alternatives and having good results with them.

Best,
Willy