Hyperbaric Oxygen Treatment and an intro.

[Rainbow]

Good job and thanks for the feedback.  Now we'll get ya doing multiples in one post and then quoting different posts all in one reply.

Be serious.  It took me forever to do it   

I have some feedback too....

I'l write more later but thought I'd check in on this but a better reply than this may be a day or so off.

  Oh no.....I think your eyes just lit up at the prospect of a debate    You can try it....but I must warn you....I can talk for a long, long time. 

There's no question that Hyperbaric therapy can be beneficial for conditions like carbon monoxide poisoning, smoke inhalation, gas gangrene, osteomyelitis, skin grafts, non-healing wounds, etc....especially for anaerobic infections which are caused by bacteria  that can't grow in the presence of oxygen.

But I think that HBOT is many times used as a very expensive "feel good"  tool for conditions that will not obtain any lasting effect/benefit.  And I think it's unfair and irresponsible to sell people a very expensive machine and tell them there are no risks from using it.  What if they have a home unit and they develop other medical conditions later and they're still believing there's no risk?

I certainly wouldn't use HBOT on someone with a history of having liver lesions in the past or a high risk of liver cancer.  HBOT increases  vascularity to tumors.

The vasoconstricting effects of hyperbaric therapy can affect glucose uptake and metabolism and impair the absorption of insulin.  It can also cause increased hemolysis on someone with an upper respiratory infection.

And how about people with COPD (Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease)?

High oxygen concentrations keep the hemoglobin saturated ....which can increase the risk that they will breathe too slowly, not exhale properly and develop significant carbon dioxide retention.  The work of breathing is dependent on pressure and volume, and it becomes greater as hyperbaric pressure increases. So people with COPD, who are already compromised because they have increased airway pressures may be at risk of respiratory failure.

You add to that the vasoconstrictive effects of smoking and the risk will be higher.

I also don't think HBOT is a good idea for anybody whose cardiac output may already be compromised.....like CHF (Congestive Heart Failure) patients.  HBOT decreases heart rate and cardiac output ....so it can make it worse. 

or anybody with symptoms of CHF.....like red. 

Willy.....he's not the one that wants to try it, is he?  I remember seeing a post from someone that wanted to try it but I can't remember who it was. 

[willy]

Well....I've been boning up on this a little.  A brief summary first.  Ovewr a year ago I saw a post by Drobie and asked him to post his experiences here.  There is some debate about the validity of some types of treatment; you'll see and hear that.  My feeling is that sometimes heppers end up serving as guinea pigs for all kinds of alternative treatments.  It's a great thing about boards; they serve as a repository of anectdotal experiences.  The blade certainly can cut both directions people can be hurt experimenting people could also get some benefit.  I'm in no position to recommend or dissuade on this treatment.  I did think it was useful to have a thread on the topic.

Let me summarize Drobies case.  He claims that he was suggested this treatment by a doctor.  He has numerous treatments.  He claims that he has felt better from the treatment.  He claimed that his meld score dropped after several treatments.  Based on this.... I asked him to post his story.  I didn't know much about the therapy.  I wanted to understand the principles involved that could aid someone with a meld score of 14.

The update...... I know a 21 year old who is currently awaiting a liver transplant.  They have a meld about 24 and are very very sick.  When redrodeo mentioned that he was doing HBOT I thought about the post by Drobie and wondered...... what would the updated information be from a guy who has been doing this another year?  I wrote him and asked for an update.  I'll admit; I was hoping for something that could help a 21 year old with bleeds, encelepathy and all the attendant problems of ESLD.  This is not a treatment that I'm promoting.... but I do wonder....did wonder if some beneficial aspect could help keep this kid alive a little longer while they await a liver.  I wrote Drobie..... and he was kind enough to respond to my note.

I don't have any answers.  I'm hardly in a position to make recommendations.

Rainbow does have extensive medical background in the area of HCV and TX as well as a solid general medical background.  It's clear that she is concerned about the effectiveness and safety of the treatment.  As a side benefit....we get to read up on the process....learn about the treatment or some contrindications. 

I've provided a few links which describe the process, it's history and the uses of HBOT; both accepted and perhaps contested by the medical community.  Before I post some of these links and discussions I want to point out that Drobie is not selling anything.  He is a HCV infected person who believes that HBOT has helped him.  My understanding was that he wanted to share his experience.  I believe that he also posted his origional thread asking for any peoples experiences.  He's just another on of us and like us he can also use some constructive input, education or suggestions about his own situation.  I thank Drobie for sharing.  I also thank Rainbow for providing some feedback about the process and it's ramifications

best,
Willy

I don't know if this will all fit onto one post...... but I'll try.  The first and easiest issue was the fire danger in HBOT.  This is dated information...... about 10 years old.  In 79 years worldwide there were about 1 fatality per year worldwide;

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2833155

Résumé / Abstract
Fire can be catastrophic in the confined space of a hyperbaric chamber. From 1923 to1996, 77 human fatalities occurred in 35 hyperbaric chamber fires, three human fatalities in a pressurized Apollo Command Module, and two human fatalities in three hypobaric chamber fires reported in Asia, Europe, and North America. Two fires occurred in diving bells, eight occurred in recompression (or decompression) chambers, and 25 occurred in clinical hyperbaric chambers. No fire fatalities were reported in the clinical hyperbaric chambers ofNorth America. Chamber fires before 1980 were principally caused by electrical ignition. Since 1980, chamber fires have been primarily caused by prohibited sources of ignition that an occupant carried inside the chamber. Each fatal chamber fire has occurred in an enriched oxygen atmosphere (>28% oxygen) and in the presence of abundant burnable material. Chambers pressurized with air (<23.5% oxygen) had the only survivors. Information in this report was obtained from the literature and from the Undersea and Hyperbaric Medical Society's Chamber Experience and Mishap Database. This epidemiologic review focuses on information learned from critical analyses of chamber fires and how it can be applied to safe operation of hypobaric and hyperbaric chambers.
(EDIT:    PS: By deaths I obviously have meant deaths due to fires within HBO chanbers.  I'm not sure if one could easily come by other fatalities or medical issues involved from the use of HBOT.  Certainly this could be a larger number. - Willy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Below are a list of links about the process.  I start out rather objective..... with the most creditable sources.  My goal is to learn about the process as it pertains to HCV or attendant illnesses and symptoms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbaric_oxygen_therapy

http://www.emedicine.com/plastic/topic526.htm

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/317/7166/1140

http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/97/7
------------------------------------------
I next wanted to know..... how or why could this work?  In the first 4 links I found not much suggestiing that HBOT could be useful with HCV, ESLD, etc.   Since some of the treatments are controversial I went to a site that was making some claims.  I include that site.  I include a link to a list of diseases and symptoms they use HBOT for.  I'm not endorsing; I'm trying to round out the information.  i want to compare what the technical sites provide and compare it to a site that sells treatments.

http://www.drcranton.com/hbo/HBOT_Increases_Stem_Cells.htm

http://www.drcranton.com/hbo/conditions_treated.htm
Cirrhosis,  Rheumatoid arthritis (acute) ----these are the two main posibilities which I could come up with from a site which sells HBOT treatment.  Admittedly, this may have to be taken with a grain of salt..... but I thought....well; why not google "HBOT and cirrhosis""

Below is that study;

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WM6-4H16S5G-6&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=3661f90822a97765cd58fe21b22207ac

"Beneficial Effect of Hyperbaric Oxygenation on Liver Regeneration in Cirrhosis"
-----------------------------------------------------------

Now...... I got to read their conclusion....I got to get the title..... but I am not a member of the org that houses these trials.  I could read 1 page for free; the rest was pay per view.   

That's where I end my research for the night.  At least I got it up on the board.

Good enough for tonight anyway....

best,
Willy

Edit.... by the way....that last study was a Japonese study....on mice.  I so far have not been able to come up with study results with people specifically about HCV or presumably with advanced liver disease.  There seems little question that the treatment would help with anemia, but at a level of risk and expense.  I think there could be e tendency to presume that a higher oxygen content could cause regeneration of the liver..... but a large part of the damage of cirrhosis is fibrosis; I'm not sure that extra oxygen would remove that.  Some forms of cancer also thrive in an oxygen rich enviroment in which HBOT is not recommended.  I still look at this a a chance to take a closer look at this and see any potential benefits and drawbacks.  There are not that many people who have used HBOT either as a means of mitigating symptoms or damage (I understand that these may be contentions that are not proven) .  According to the Wikipedia article this topic has been argued somewhat in pubmed articles/studies.....and so there may be more data than I've come across.

[Rainbow]

Sometimes I've been able to come up with answers by forgetting about the complicated stuff and keeping it simple....


Cirrhosis is scar tissue.  You know what a scar looks like.  Let's say you somehow injured your arm and ended up with a huge scar.  If you gave that scar high pressure oxygen, could you get rid of it?  Could you make it reverse?  Look better?  Get circulation to it?  Think about it.  If it worked, we would be using hyperbaric therapy on anybody who's ever had their face disfigured by scars.


"Cirrhosis,  Rheumatoid arthritis (acute) ----these are the two main posibilities which I could come up with from a site which sells HBOT treatment. "
 

I find it very interesting that the two diagnosis that are recommended to use hyperbaric therapy under controlled clinical trials only....are the ones these places are advertising it for.  So that means the patient has to pay out of pocket and the clinic can charge whatever they want. 


"Hyperbaric oxygen has been shown ineffective in diseases such as multiple sclerosis and dementia, but it continues to be used despite the risks of the treatment. For conditions where its use remains unprovedfor example, rheumatoid arthritis, cirrhosis, and gastroduodenal ulcerhyperbaric oxygen should be used only in the context of well controlled clinical trials. "

 http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi /content/full/317/7166/1140 #Conditions%20which%20do%20not %20benefit

[Mimi63]

Hi Rainbow -

I've followed many of your posts with interest.  It's probably posted, but, if you don't mind, what exactly is your medical background and experience with HCV?

Thanks.

Mimi

[Ella]

This from Journal of Surgical Research, Volume 129, Issue 2, Pages 260-264.

Don't know if one of your sites gives the same information Willy - will read them now and find out. 



      
Background

Underlying hepatic injury and cirrhosis are leading factors that interfere with the post-operative liver regeneration and function. Hyperbaric oxygenation (HBO) has been reported to ameliorate the ischemia-reperfusion injury of the liver, to induce compensatory hypertrophy of the predicted remnant liver in rats after portal vein ligation and to augment liver regeneration after hepatectomy in non-cirrhotic rats. Our aim was to determine the effect of HBO treatment on liver regeneration after partial hepatectomy in normal and cirrhotic mice in this experimental study.

Materials and methods

The effect of HBO on liver regeneration was studied in a mice model combining carbon tetrachloride induced cirrhosis and partial hepatectomy. Mice were divided into four groups: Control, cirrhotic, non-cirrhotic HBO-treated, and cirrhotic HBO-treated. All animals underwent 40% hepatectomy. Liver regeneration was evaluated by the proliferating cell nuclear antigen-labeling index. Serum aspartate aminotransferase and alanine aminotransferase levels were measured to evaluate liver injury.

Results

Serum alanine aminotransferase and aspartate aminotransferase levels were significantly decreased in HBO-treated cirrhotic group compared to cirrhosis group after hepatectomy (P = 0.001 and P = 0.014, respectively). The proliferating cell nuclear antigen labeling index was significantly higher in HBO treated cirrhotic group than in cirrhotic group after hepatectomy (P = 0.022).

Conclusions

Our results suggest that HBO treatment improves liver functions and augments hepatocyte regeneration in cirrhotic mice after hepatectomy. Post-operative HBO treatment may have a beneficial effect on post-operative liver function and regeneration in cirrhotic patients.

      
Copyright © 2003 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved. Feedback  |  About Article Finder  |  Help

[robin]

One thing we do know...it doesn't help ugly from too much plastic surgery...look at Michael Jackson.    Keep your spirits high...robin