Herbal Treatment: Cat's Claw, Codonopsis, Turmeric, Licorice, etc.

[ketamanic]

I pulled this from the following link http://www.newstarget.com/022363.html that was posted by Dude over in the News, prayers, friends forum.  I started researching some of the herbs used in this 'immunity tonic' and underlined some key points that I found of interest.

Astragalus: The main constituents include polysaccharides, saponins, flavonoids, amino acids, and trace elements. Research shows it stimulates the immune system in many ways. It increases the number of stem cells in bone marrow, lymph tissue and encourages their development into active immune cells. It enhances the body's production of immunoglobulin and stimulates macrophages. It can help activate T cells. It also proffers heart protecting effects, including protection against oxidative damage.

Barberry: Contains berberine that aids in the secretion of bile and is good for liver problems, helps regulate the digestive processes. The antibacterial properties of the alkaloid berbamine have shown activity against Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, Salmonella, Shigella and Eschorichia Coli. It is also good for hepatitis, colic, and jaundice. Antiseptic, fevers, inflammatory conditions, blood purifier, diarrhea and sore throat.



Cat’s Claw: Contains powerful antioxidants, such as proanthocyanidins, which help fight against free radical damage, protect collagen, and reduce swelling & inflammation. It is considered beneficial not only for the immune system, but for the digestive and structural systems as well. It has a pronounced effect on the ability of white blood cells to engulf and digest harmful micro-organisms and foreign matter. Cat's claw has also been shown to increase the production of leukocytes and specifically T4 lymphocytes, thus blocking the advance of many viral illnesses. Protects the body from viruses and virus caused cancers, general cancers, auto-immune disorders.


Codonopsis: "Poor Man’s Ginseng”, it builds both red and white blood cells. It is rich in immune stimulating polysaccharides which are beneficial to every one. It is useful in supporting the immune systems of people with cancer. It also has interferon-inducing activity that may be of importance in many immune deficiency conditions, including HIV protection & infection.

Eleuthero: Has a beneficial effect on the heart and circulation. It has been shown to increase energy & stamina, help the body resist viral infections, environmental toxins, radiation, and chemotherapy. It increases immuno-competent cells - particularly T cells and natural killer cells numbers. It is used for boosting the immune system of cancer patients, treating arrhythmias and other heart diseases, diabetes, and for its antimicrobial action.

Turmeric: Helps to stabilize the body's microflora, it sensitizes the body's cortisol receptor sites, and its anti-inflammatory properties are considered at least equal to those of cortisones. It protects against free radical damage because it is a strong antioxidant. It protects the liver from a number of toxic compounds. It prevents blood platelet aggregation and is excellent for those exposed to toxic chemicals. Curcumin in Turmeric possesses liver protective characteristics, assists in detoxifying the body of dangerous carcinogens, stimulates the gall-bladder, and acts as a free-radical scavenger.

Also, pulled from several other sources is some info on interesting herbs not included in this immunity tonic:

Licorice (Glycyrrhiza glabra). Among its many other medicinal uses, licorice is active against many types of viral infections. One of its eight active antiviral compounds, glycyrrhizin, inhibits a number of processes involved in virus replication, among them penetration of the body's cells and replication of viral genetic material.

Shiitake (Lentinus edodes). This tasty Asian mushroom contains a compound called lentinan that has antiviral, immune-stimulating and anti-tumor properties, according to a report published in the Lawrence Review of Natural Products, a respected newsletter. Its antiviral action has been demonstrated in experiments with laboratory animals. Shiitake extract helped protect mice against viral encephalitis.

Dragon's blood (Croton lechleri). This herb is also known as sangregrado or sangre de drago. There's a good reason why dragon's blood is on the back cover of the Amazonian Ethnobotanical Dictionary, which I co-authored in 1994 with Rodolfo Vasquez, botanist at the Missouri Botanical Garden. Several compounds in it, among them dimethylcedrusine and taspine, have antiviral and wound-healing properties that may be especially useful against the viral sores caused by herpes. The natural mixture of all three compounds heals wounds four times faster than the individual compounds alone.



I am particularly interested in the supposed interferon-inducing properties of Codonopsis.  Would doses of this herb work similarly to interferon injections?  Could this herb even be a substitute for the injections?

Licorice root supposedly contains a compound that can inhibit the processes involved in viral replication.Ribavirin works by inhibiting viral replication... although there are many different methods that this inhibition can occur by, the end result could be the same: stunted viral replication signigicant enough to allow the body's natural anti-viral mechanisms(interferon, especially when enhanced by other herb like codonopsis) to eliminate the virus completely. 

In theory, this combo could work similar to interferon and ribavirin treatment.  Also in theory, this is too blatantly simple to have been over-looked in all the years of Hep C and other viral illness treatment.  So my question is, which of my theories is right:  a)it's been tested, and was not effective or b)it hasn't been tested because my theory is bunk due to my own lack of understanding.... then again, there's always the third possibility c)it HAS been overlooked...

I added Dragon's Blood to the list because I have several bottles of it laying around in tincture form, and suffer cold sores every couple of months.... never has the thought crossed my mind to try applying it for it's healing properties.

[19Dragon52]

(((Manic)))

Yeah, I read this post and am quite interested in it.  The first thing that needs to be done especially while on TX is to make sure none of the herbs & supplements will interfere with TX.  Next they should all be researched for any possible long-term Liver problems.  I am Post TX but want to do the research on any long-term exposure to the Liver.  I guess taking it as a tonic for a Flu Season or Cold Season doen's have to necessarily mean long term though, eh?  I'm sorry I can't answer any of your questions outright but will be anxious to read the replies that will post.

Just one more thing if I may?!  During TX I set aside most all vitamins, herbals & supplements except for the most basic.  I did this as I wanted to give the TX meds the best chance I could by not interefering...eg. Milk Thistle.  Although exellent for our Liver I believe it's not recommended during TX although I may be wrong, I know I read it somewhere.    You can do a lot of research here on the board as I see you are beginning to find out.

GoodQuestions.  Willy and Tom our usually good at being able to sift through this type of thing and come up with pertinent anwers.

Happy Weekend.....

[MissyMouse]

Joycie,

My GI won't let me do Milk Thistle while I'm on tx either.  The only supplements I'm doing are a multi-vitamin (without iron, thanks for the education Doug and Joycie) and B-Complex w/ folic acid.

Mouse

[JustBlue]

Hey Missy,
Don't forget that extra folic acid helped me with energy. I took 5mg a day and still do.
That extra was from my specialist, and it did work great.

[MissyMouse]

Hey Blusey,

I'm getting 400mcg in the B Complex and another 400mcg in the multi-vitaming that Doug and Joyce got me to switch too.  Don't know how that equates into milograms LOL.

Mouse

[ketamanic]

I tend to agree with the docs that recommend foregoing the supplements and herbals during interferon/ribavirin treatment.  There's a chance they could help, and there's a chance they could interfere/make things worse when taking somethin so potent, that has a wide range of effects on the body.

I am more interested in herbal treatment in place of the standard ribavirin/interferon treatment.  As it stands, I am awaiting a doctors appt to discuss the results of a liver biopsy(my doc had 'an emergency' that required me re-scheduling a week before my appt and now am waiting over a month for it).  I am considering pursuing an herbal therapy if the results are positive(IE, no significant liver damage).  I won't put off interferon if there shows any significant liver damage, however, as there's always that chance I take all these herbal supplements and they do squat, and I end up that much further away from the treatment that is really going to work(or, at least, has an 85% chance of working).

[Mongo]

Howdy,

For anyone who is interested in using herbs with, or instead of traditional meds, I say, "Go for it".  But then I say this:

Please be careful.  Just because it's organic, does not mean it can't harm as well as heal...


Back several years ago, I had a few extra bucks, and actually went to, and was treated by a "Traditional Chinese Medicine" practitioner.  This isn't a new-age thing, but real deal stuff, based on the Chinese healing arts that are around 10,000 years old. 

His name was Daniel Light (I think) and he practiced in the San Fernando Valley. 

(I don't remember much about it, but here's what I THINK I remember)

He didn't claim to be able to "clear: the virus, but helped balance my systems so that I could live with it...I felt good, the AST/ALT numbers were LOW.  It seemed to be a reasonable approach to the situation, and I felt good most of the time.


Now, I said all of that stuff to make my point;  here comes the point...


Please be careful.  Herbalists, traditional chinese doc's, any of them worth a darn will tell you that some herbs can cause this virus to get worse, not better.  Schizadra berry (spelling?) was one that was thought to be helpful, but could actually be kinda bad for you if not used the right way...


Satisfied with his ramblings, Kerry looks around, and then jumps down from his soap-box

[ketamanic]

Kerry, can you be more specific as to how Schizandra can be harmful?

Have you taken any of the herbals that I listed above?

[Mongo]

Ketamanic,

Here's how it was explained to me:

Schizandra, if taken, "wrong", or in too great a quantity, can "push HCV deeper into the liver".  I know this isn't a very clinical statement;   but this is how my traditional Chinese medicine practitioner explained it.

I have dabbled with a couple of the herbs on your list, and licorice was one of them.  When I read about it ten years ago, I jumped all over it; I was going to heal my self, & show the world what I was made of.

I was in such a hurry that I missed the part in my reading that warns hypertension patients against it, because it can aggravate high blood pressure...

Here's what I'm inclined to check  out today:

Nutrition.



Dude posted a great article about juicing, and it really got me thinking...nutrition and HCV...

I am interested in looking at juicing, and i want to read up on wheatgrass juice in particular.  I've read a little on wheatgrass juice, I drink it when I think to stop at the juice joint down the street, and I want to learn more.

So, keep us posted as you learn, Ket.  I'm glad you're a part of our community, my friend.


Regards,


Kerry

[19Dragon52]

(((Good Morning Manic)))

Now that I know you are possibly looking for an alternative tx opposed to standard tx I may be able to guide you to more lucrative possibilities.    First of all, you are definitely in the right Forum.  Quite a while ago we had a member who's name was "WellWoman."  WellWoman became a pain in the rooster for many as she wouldn't support anybody on standard tx and was 100% convinced that "natural" was the way to go.  She then disappeared for awhile (whew!...sorry...just light humor...we got along for the most part) only to return with bloodwork tests that had either showed her near undetectable or low enough to be undetectable.

You will need to go back in the archives to see all that she had put together for herself.  Again I believe it is a very individual process but I myself have learned so much from this Forum.  When I was first diagnosed there was no talk of TXing because I am bi-polar and had also made two attempts on my life...NOT a good candidate.  Anyway, I put together a regiment that all seemed to work well for me and my liver.  I wasn't afraid to mix it up if new news came to light.   Everybody's posts were read and all the knowledge I could consume left me with more than enough.

Go into Member's Search, click on WellWoman and I believe at the bottom of her profile there is a place to click for all of her posts to load.  Aside from that you may want to research that whole time period...there were numerous posts that were nothing short of execellant.

Let me know how that turns out for you, okay?

Lots of Love & Support.....

[pete c]

HEllo everyone
I have a question The vitmaens bcomplex and folic acid are these the one you get at a drug store or do you have to go to a health food store?
next question I have is about juiceing  what type of machine would be good to buy? hey thanks inadvance for any help.
   I also have acid refulx  so what ae some good things i could use to get some pep in the step?

                                                         petc

[Helen]

Hi Pete,

 For B complex viatmins the best is to either get it thru an injection or the kind that melts under your tongue for the best absorption. You usually have to get that at a health food store I believe or online, at least thats been my experience. And those of us that have acid reflux really need the vit B.
I just take prilosec daily and it does help, Ive heard alot of people swear by Apple cider vinigar mixed with baking soda and water but I havent tried ie yet. A few people have said it gave them a heartburrn ( and I can understand why  ) but many have said it got rid of the heartburn. I do have a good friend who's daughter was suffering daily and was told to try this by her monther-in-law and she swears by it, hasnt had any problems since and as a matter of fact I know a few old timers who swear by it for lots of ailments.  I have some but havent tried it for the heartburn yet, but I will. 
 
 We did try the apple cider vinigar for sinus congestion and it worked really well.

 I bought a vitamin and suppliment book when I was first dx'd  to make sure I wasnt taking anything bad for my liver and I read that when taking vitamins the best way to do that is to look for the chelated vitamins which are better absorbed by the body.

 I now try to get as much thru food as I can and Im getting better and better at it. I have recently started just taking a multi-vitamin along with Milk Thistle and glucosamoine and Chondroiton with calcium & D. I'm not saying I dont eat any junk or anything like that cuz I do, but my main meals are pretty healthy and I incorporate alot of high potent antioxident stuff such as fresh bluberries, pineapples, ansd brocolli as often as possible and I make sure I get enough fiber. Its almost starting to become like a hobby for me. 
 Im just trying to stay as healthy as I can, I may have to do tx. down the road and I want to be in the best shape healthwise if/when it happens.

 Oh and I used to juice ALOT so my advice on a juicer is to get one that can fit like a whole or at least half an apple in the grinder hole or whatever its called, Im so sorry I bought a little cheaper one and have to chop everything up, it became such a pain and just way to much work so I dont use it very often anymore but I plan to buy another one because its a great way to get some very healthy stuff in without having to worry about eating enough of it. And some of that healthy stuff that you might not like the taste of isnt noticed at all when its mixed in with pineapples and apples, grapes and all that good stuff. 

[Helen]

 Oh yeah, I wanted to add that "Licorice root" is really good to take......but only for short periods of time, Like kerry says it can raise your blood pressure, it should never be taken for longer than 2 weeks, I take it sometimes as I change up my regimen here and there but I usually only take it for
a week.

 

[Mongo]

Helen,

You brought up a good point: 

People have gotten away from the "grazer" mentality of diet.  We could (re)learn something by watching horses:

Horses are grazers; they wander around, eat a little here, eat a little there...always moving, and always changing (rotating) the types of food they eat.  Not too  much of any one thing at any one time.  Different grasses have different vitamins/minerals...The grasses on the north slope are different than the grasses on the east...and so on. 

So, it only makes sense to "eat like horses" regarding some of these herbs and supplements.  Licorice root is a perfect example, as is echineicha (sp?) and several other herbal remedies.

So, graze on...

[negative1]

That made me hungry as a horse!
Pete, Go online and look for a *Juice Man* juicer. I got mine there and it is easy to use and easy to clean. I bought the stainless steel one for about $100 I think. It had a large opening so I can put apple halves in, not cut carrots and it is pretty rugged too.